During a recent episode of The Verge’s Decoder podcast, Logitech CEO Hanneke Faber shed some possible insight into the company’s view on one of its most important products. Saying that “the mouse built this house,” Faber shares the planning behind a Forever Mouse, a premium product that the company hopes will be the last you ever have to buy. There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.
For now, details on a Forever Mouse are thin, but you better believe there will be a catch. The Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.
Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.
Bull-fucking-shit. That’s just not how any of this works.
There are plenty of companies that make appliances that last a long fucking time, and don’t have to rely on fucking DLC micro transaction AI bullshit. The reason Instant Pot went bankrupt is the same reason a ton of popular companies have recently had issues: They got bought by private equity (who also owned Pyrex and fucked them over), saddled with a shitton of bad debt, squeezed of every bit of brand value they had, and then left to fall apart as the PE firm made off with millions.
The fact that the writer correlated “quality, durable good” with “unsuccessful business and bankruptcy” is absolutely one of the worst takes, and really shows just how pervasive this disgusting idea of “must be disposable to be profitable” really is.
Thank you for typing this up because I was not capable of doing it because vitriol messes up my WPM.
Partially true, but also they wouldn’t invest in something that lasts forever (without it costing an absurd amount of money or the subscription requirement). I like this video that shows the issue pretty well. (TLDW: Communist Germany made glass so durable it didn’t break as a product to sell to the west. No company would purchase it though because they made most of their profit from selling replacements. The glass is now what we call Gorilla Glass, which is really only available on phones, which are designed to be replaced every few years anyway.)
100 years ago there was a meeting amongst lightbulb manufacturers that all collectively agreed to only design light bulbs to last about 1,000 hours. They were known as The Phoebus Cartel and Included Phillips and GE. Up until this agreement lighbulbs were typically lasting up to 2,500 hours. The manufacturers essentially created the concept of planned obsolescence because people weren’t buying as many lighbulbs as they wanted and it was decided to stop making longer lasting bulbs with higher costs. The whole thing started falling apart (competition of non members that were making bulbs, but they were all small operations, as well as patent expirations that GE had) and the start of world War two pretty much broke it up, as the Cartel couldn’t keep everything regulated and tested due to all the travel restrictions and such. But it still remains as the first global wide creation of planned obsolescence.
Extra fun fact: the common light socket screw design/size has remained the same since 1880.
That is mostly a myth. They did agree of the lifetime, but it wasn’t planned obsolescence like people act. The lifetime of a bulb is directly related to how bright it is. If you make a really dim bulb it lasts a long time, which is how that one in the firehouse is still alive. It’s so dim it’s effectively useless. The group met to decide on a luminosity target, which also is a lifespan target effectively.
Yes, A dim bulb is extremely inefficient, it will use a lot of electricity for a very small amount of light.
On the other hand you can make very efficient lightbulb that will be very bright for a small amount of electricity but last only for a few minutes.
The 1000 hours limits is a nice middle ground.
And what of the noble gas filled bulbs that were both brighter and longer lasting?
i mean, all incandecant bulbs are filled with a noble gas, Argon. If they didnt any bulb would have a lifespan measured in seconds.
Back in the 1920’s and earlier they were commonly just in a vacuum.
Weird, because I’m pretty sure all other mice can be used forever, as long as they don’t break.
I’m pretty sure the ‘forever’ part refers to the payment model.
Then I will “forever” not buy anything from them
Allow me to translate the business language to understandable terms…we (Logitech) will sell customers (us) a hook. When they bite, they bite forever. They will pay us (Logitech) to use their own hardware! What a bunch of idiots!
Additionally I would like to propose that we don’t sign up for apple or other fruit rentals or delivery subscriptions. If you want a banana, go to the market and get one. Then eat the banana. It should cost only a few cents since you basically consume the thing. Now, if you want a mouse, go to Amazon and buy one from there that is not Logitech. Then just hook it up to the computer and use it! That’s it! In fact, if you don’t return it, your compromise with the seller ends when they deliver it to your door. Both you and the seller walk away happy. There’s no fucking subscription to a mouse! WTF! That’s a company with two legs just about done shooting one off.
Additionally I would like to propose that we don’t sign up for apple or other fruit rentals or delivery subscriptions.
Not yet
Well switches for their MX Master series break all the damn time.
I hate that I keep buying them, but they really are a perfect mouse other than the fatal flaw that pops up about 19 seconds after the warranty expires…
Yeach unfortunetly purerly from ergonomical point of view those mf truly make the best mouses at every price point . Cheap 10 dolars mouse and keyboard, still the best ergonomics for this price. Lift , ergonomical mastery ,pure joy to use. Unfortunetly switch broke after a year and a half and since it was company provided mouse from the time when they went on a shopping spree for office equipment they dont have then anymore ( i literaly took the last one ). Now the only replacment i got is the cheap mouse and keyboard also from Logitech that on the other hand refuses to break and i want a goddam excuse to buy myself something better.
I’m at the point where I’m maintaining three classic thumbball mice with a bag of replacement microswitches. I wouldn’t consider that viable for the typical consumer, but it works for me. Also these particular bluetooth models come with their own USB-A receiver, so I don’t rely on software updates either.
That said, the ploopy thumbball may be my next daily driver.
Oh wow I never wanted to stop buying Logitech before. I guess there’s a first time for everything. Fuck this noise.
yeah, I’ve always gone for Logitech and they have had great customer support. i guess I’ll have to look for something else next time i replace a peripheral.
Really? They went to shit over a decade ago. Cheap $30 Chinese Amazon mice surpassed Logitech in quality around 2013. I was getting so sick and tired of spending $80 on a mouse with a middle click that was going to break in a couple of years.
Yeah I bought a Logitech mouse and a little after a year the right click went bad. It would randomly click twice, never stop clicking, or not click at all. I ended up ordering some replacement japanese switches on digikey for like $5, unsoldered the old ones and resoldered the new ones. It’s been close to 10 years now and with the new switches, it’s the best mouse I’ve ever owned. I’m not happy with Logitech but I am happy with my custom mouse
I really like their master MX master mice. I find them much more comfortable than alternatives.
2013 might be an exaggeration, but yea most Chinese brand mouses (Lamzu for example) are solid picks unless you care about software
There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.
This line made me think that maybe the subscription was a different thing? So I googled and found this interview: https://www.theverge.com/24206847/logitech-ceo-hanneke-faber-mouse-keyboard-gaming-decoder-podcast-interview:
I’m going to ask this very directly. Can you envision a subscription mouse?
Possibly.
And that would be the forever mouse?
Yeah.
So you pay a subscription for software updates to your mouse.
Yeah, and you never have to worry about it again, which is not unlike our video conferencing services today.
But it’s a mouse.
But it’s a mouse, yeah.
I think consumers might perceive those to be very different.
[Laughs] Yes, but it’s gorgeous. Think about it like a diamond-encrusted mouse.
Okay…
Also from that interview:
Some only have a mouse or only a keyboard, but many of them have both. But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low. This is stuff you use every day, that sits on your desk every day, that you look at every day. That’s like the price of four coffees at Starbucks or less than a Nike running shirt. There is so much room to create more value in that space as we make people more productive — to extend human potential.
Guys, you are not giving Logitech enough money! You can do better!
Think about it like a diamond-encrusted mouse.
Oh good grief. Do they really think they can adopt the subscription-for-heated-seats model, and get people to use their high-end computer peripherals as some kind of flex? I just don’t see people holding their “Logitechtm Gamer PC Lease” over anyone else’s head.
My optimism has me thinking that this CEO is deliberately tilting at windmills in order to appease shareholders, because Logitech has been around long enough to be steady-state (not growing much) at this point.
It felt like a joke based on the tone.
4 coffee??? Damn
Reminder that getting a subscription service means moving away from something you buy occasionally to something you pay forever
Not only that, but there’s a 100% chance they sell this shit to you as a forever mouse, then in a few years if it’s not making them money hand over fist, they’ll discontinue it and keep your money.
Weird, I’ve had my mouse practically forever and it works just fine. I guess I better throw it in the trash so I can jump on this subscription based opportunity.
premium mouse that receives constant updates
Come on. How many firmware updates can we really expect for a mouse?
I’ve had an m570 for about 10 years. Every time it broke, I fixed it. Why do we need a subscription?
This is not about you, but about them. It’s not that you need a subscription. It’s that they need you to have a subscription.
But they need to convince me that the subscription is worthwhile!
If you are going to ask questions maybe you are not the target demographic.
Damned straight! I’ll stick with my boring old non-ai grandpa mouse.
Back in my day the mice had a tail, no scroll wheel, and only 2 buttons!
Back in my day, mice had balls.
We used trackballs and loved them. We greased the mechanism with our forehead sweat as was the fashion at the time.
But they need to convince me that the subscription is worthwhile!
They’ll remove any mice from the market that doesn’t have a subscription model and others will follow suit.
Future mouse DLC: “Special promotion! $5 discount on unlocking right mouse button!”
They’ll remove any mice from the market that doesn’t have a subscription model and others will follow suit.
Good luck with removing aliexpress mice from the market
I doubt the open source options will be adopting this strategy either.
I have a ploopy trackball and love it.
If they only had a thumb trackball…
Not if they and their competitors remove all the other options.
Nah. There will always be companies just selling a mouse.
You wouldn’t print a mouse.
I used an HP dead stock “this ships with every computer we sell” optical mouse for twenty years before it broke.
So Logitech can bill every one of its customers every month.
No sale. It’s ridiculous.
No sale.
Joke’s on you; they’re into that shit. Their techno-feudalist wet dream is to force you into rentals for everything.
How many firmware updates can we really expect for a mouse?
Almost none, why the hell would a mouse ever need firmware updates except to fix fuckups? It has one job, translate clicks and movements into signals for the computer.
You’re supposed to get fucked and enjoy it.
I mean, for like half of the humanity this is unironically true
So its a ‘Forever Mouse’ as long I ‘Forever Pay’
Why my favorite mouse company gotta start with this bullshit. GOT-DAMN!
Buy a ploopy mouse and have your mouse forever. It is fully open sourced with QMK software.
Oh I have a Forever Mouse. Bought a Microsoft Intellimouse Optical in 2001 or so. Still works. Use it with my Raspberry Pi sometimes. Also bought another Microsoft wireless laptop mouse like a decade ago. Still works just fine.
…The Logitech mouse that I bought against my better judgement in 2020 is starting to show signs of fatigue.
Also how the everliving hell do you add AI to input devices? Are they just going to guess what I’m pointing at?
Also how the everliving hell do you add AI to input devices?
Think one of those UI’s that move your mouse to an “OK” button, but even worse, and everywhere (…ehm, everywhere it feels like). Add a Crowdstrikeability potential and you’ve got your AI crap. What’s not to love about it? (and by “love” I mean “hate”…)
Maybe they mean one with a nuclear battery.
Also how the everliving hell do you add AI to input devices?
They won’t, but they figure there are probably still some investors floating around who will buy that stupid line.
- We will move the mouse for you
- We will enable mouse accel when we think you would want it
- Pre-click the buttons
- Your Logitech Forever Mouse just purchased another Logitech Forever Mouse
Another piece of the Forever Mouse puzzle is the software. Logitech uses its Options Plus software which essentially walks people through making prompts to interact with AI. But Faber says this is just the start:
This is intended to appeal to investors instead of customers.
Yeah I really can’t imagine any scenario where I want my mouse to… Help me prompt AI??
Logitech’s desire to put AI in my IO devices is exactly why I am moving to a different manufacturer. I want solid hardware, not hardware as a service. HP also is trying this with printers and it’s total bullshit.
If I am paying a monthly fee, I’d better not also have to buy garbage hardware. That better be provided for free and replaced when it inevitably fails.
Logitech pissed me off years ago when they didn’t honour a warranty because I bought a flawed product before they extended the warranty on them.
I have not even been tempted by their products because there are so many other peripheral manufacturers out there that put out great products.
Businesses could save a lot of money by just firing their CEOs
If anyone’s job could be replaced with ChatGPT, it’s these chucklefucks.
